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  • 2
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    answered Jun 14, 2010 at 11:38AM
    There are manypossible issues here and a need for more facts. Does the patient know, or for that matter, want to know her condition? Does the patient have cultural or religious issues? Is it really a life or limb threatening sitution and if it is why did anyone ask for consent anyway? Was it an informed refusal? What are the interests of the children? Are they acting in what they believe are the patients' interests? What is the condition and is it curable, reversable, treatable, etc. i.e. Is the treatment medically indicated to reverse the course of the disease, lessen pain, etc. Is the surgery in the "best interest of the patient" which may depend on the patient's values. Finally, is the patient competent? So the legal answer is the ever popular: "It depends". More facts are needed to really understand and analyze this issue. Ed Goldman
  • 2
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    answered Jun 14, 2010 at 11:45AM
    There are a great many data missing from this question, but I'm going to make some basic assumptions (if they are wrong, then the answer may be also). First, I'm assuming that the patient is a mentally competent adult who is capable of understanding both the disease and the treatment. Secondly, I'm assuming that when he refused surgery, he was cogent, not under duress, nor under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Finally, I'm assuming that while the situation may be emergent, the patient has remained mentally alert.

    After making all of these assumptions, it is both unethical AND illegal to perform surgery upon an adult who has refused it. I understand the feelings of the children who want the best treatment for their father, but it simply is not allowed. Perhaps if you or his physician explained the disease and treatment to him, he might give in and allow it but, either way, you cannot proceed without his consent or a court order.

    As a final part to this answer, if the patient becomes unconscious, his condition changes, and the family is re-approached by the surgeon, there are circumstances in which the children can giver permission, but they would need to be specific and well documented.
    • Thank u respected Sirs,I would like to clarify my question by giving an example.If the patient is a colon cancer patient but does not know the treatment but refuses to a surgery.His children are adults and insist the surgeon to conduct the surgery as it is the only option left.So the surgeon operates the patient by describing him that there is a mass in your abdomen and we will have to remove it to save you,but after the surgery the patient expecting a closed wound finds a opening of his colostomy done and asks the surgeon so he replies that nowonwards you will defeacate through this hole into
      Female commented Jun 14, 2010 at 09:33PM
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Jun 14, 2010 at 11:56AM
    Eric, I agree that we cannot really answer without knowing more facts. If we assume your facts then it is true that an informed competent patient may refuse even life sustaining interventions and can do so even in the face of family objections. I have one concern with your answer. You said: "if the patient becomes unconscious, his condition changes, and the family is re-approached by the surgeon, there are circumstances in which the children can give permission, but they would need to be specific and well documented.' This may be true if there was, for example, a Durable Power of Attorney or if the circumstances significantly changed but in general a considered decision by a competent patient cannot be changed just because of a lapse into unconsciousness. That would be like waiting for a Jehovah's Witness to faint from lack of blood and then saying: "OK now let's give blood." Ed Goldman
  • 1
    Votes
    answered Jun 14, 2010 at 12:28PM
    I agree with Eric. Even in an emergency situation, if the patient has shown mental capacity to make his or her own decision at the time the decision is to be made and if the patient has received information from the physician about the patient's disorder, treatment, risks and possible outcomes and shows understanding of the information, then if the patient refuses the treatment, such refusal cannot be overturned by any family member. The physician may, if appropriate, present to the patient alternate approaches to treatment for the patient's consideration. If the patient refuses all and any specific treatment for the emergent condition, the physician still must provide for the patient's comfort until some final disposition of the patient is made. If the patient, who had capacity and refused treatment, subsequently becomes unconscious, the family cannot reverse the patient's previously expressed decision. However, if the patient's diagnosis has substantially changed in the interval and the information which had been given to the patient was no longer pertinent, in an emergent situation, the family could give informed consent for the new condition and new treatment (as under substituted judgment) but first having considered the possible reasons for the previous rejection by the patient. If that previous rejection was for general reasons including quality of life, which could apply to the patient's current status, then those reasons may preclude the family's decision for consent. It is the responsibility of the attending physician to consider whether any decision by family surrogates most likely represents a substituted judgment of what the patient would have said he or she wanted. That means that the physician must question the family regarding their understanding of the patient's wishes and the basis for their decision. ..Maurice.
  • 1
    Votes
    answered Jun 14, 2010 at 02:51PM
    Trite as it sounds, I agree with everyone. This is a very complex situation requiring much more information than we have, and significant changes in the patient's condition, understanding, etc., as well as the presence of a durable power of attorney and/or an advanced directive can all make a substantial difference in the answer.

    By the way, Ed, I did not mean to imply that once a patient became unconscious, we could simply have the family change a considered decision by the patient. I merely meant that at that point, if things changed, the family would be left to decide whether to change the decision based upon information that the patient was not in a condition to process and act upon.
  • 1
    Votes
    answered Jun 14, 2010 at 03:05PM
    Eric, but I just want to emphasize (from your second paragraph) that any consent made by the family of that now unconscious patient would have to be based not only on the new condition and information provided by the doctor but also based and decided upon by the family's understanding of the meaning and intent of the patient's initial refusal decision. The patient's underlying philosophy regarding treatment has to be considered. ..Maurice.
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