Medpedia

The content on or accessible through Medpedia.com is for informational purposes only. Medpedia is not a substitute for professional advice or expert medical services from a qualified health professional. Read more

Medpedia Answers

(Other)

Medpedia Answers is a platform for asking and answering questions about health and medicine. Read more.

Does a fertilized human egg represent a legal person so that an intentional killing of that legal human person should be considered a homicide? What would be the consequences to medicine, science and the constitutional rights of women if this became law?

From October 26, 2011 New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/us/politics/personhood-amendments-would-ban-nearly-all-abortions.html?_r=2&nl=afternoonupdate&emc=aua2

"A constitutional amendment facing voters in Mississippi on Nov. 8, and similar initiatives brewing in half a dozen other states including Florida and Ohio, would declare a fertilized human egg to be a legal person, effectively branding abortion and some forms of birth control as murder. With this far-reaching anti-abortion strategy, the proponents of what they call personhood amendments hope to reshape the national debate."

Though the results of the Mississippi vote will be available shortly, if the amendment is passed I think there are a number of important implications of that law on the lives of those in Mississippi who have already been born, are living and currently are considered full legal, human persons. What ethical implications do you find if the amendment becomes the law of Mississippi and perhaps in other states? ..Maurice.
asked Oct 27 at 06:53PM in Other
  • A visitor to my blog wrote this in response to this legislation if it becomes law:

    "Fertility doctors will be outlaws. Freezing legal persons? And since we're talking about the US, what is the nationality of these legal persons prior to birth. The US constitution and law is very clear that all grants to citizenship are based on birth (born on US soil, born to US citizen, etc.). So, will women be carrying around undocumented immigrants (from where?) for nine months? ... Will child support and welfare be applied for at conception? Tax exemptions? Commuter lanes? It's ludicrous legislation."
    Maurice Bernstein MD commented Oct 28 at 01:48PM
9 Answers
3 Following
↓ answer this question
Sort By Date Votes
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Oct 30 at 09:35AM
    I lived in a region of Idaho that was influenced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am not sure if there was a law on the books about this, but there was certainly an "informal injunction", with no abortions being performed in the regional hospital or local hospitals, for any reason. As you know better than I, such informal bans have existed for a long time, with the result of people wanting or needing an abortion going to a state (or region of a state) which allowed abortions at least in some circumstances. Laws or referendums leading to laws formalize this process, but go much further in that both doctors and patients, and perhaps counsellors, nurses, and social workers, can be charged with homicide. I am concerned that there will be not only more homicides of doctors, as has occurred over the years, but also prosecution for those brave or foolish enough to defy a legislative ban for medical reasons. Does the US Constitution have any say in this? Interesting times we are living in, as Americans vote in state referendums.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Oct 30 at 10:20AM
    " no abortions being performed in the regional hospital or local hospitals, for any reason."

    To allow a mother to die because of inability to access a local hospital which could prevent her death by termination of pregnancy is wanton disregard for human life and those hospitals and physicians should be held criminally liable for that mother's death. There is no possible excuse for the death of a mother simply for following a religious dictum which ends up anyway in the death of the unborn.

    Kim, if the Mississippi law is passed on November 8, obviously we will see whether the US Supreme Court will answer your question about constitutionality.. ..Maurice.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Nov 10 at 02:18PM
    A brief respite until the amendment vote turns up in other states and then returns back to Mississippi next year. Until then, those folks who voted YES will just have to deal with Roe vs Wade. ..Maurice.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Nov 13 at 05:36AM
    Maurice,
    Now that the vote has failed in Mississippi, I believe it is easier to discuss the potential implications of such a law without as much emotional baggage to taint the discussion.Also, before I begin, I would like to say to those who believe in such an amendment or statute that unlike them, I have the ability to see the "other side." If I truly believed, as they do, in humanity beginning at conception, I would probably be fighting the same battle they are. The problem, in its simplest form, however, is that they are unable recognize the possibility that they could be wrong.

    If any law is passed that provides legal status as a "person" to a zygote, its implications would, indeed, be as "grave" as people have imagined (pun intended). ALL abortion would be illegal (I can make arguments to the contrary, but that would be the natural outcome of the legislation), doctors, nurses, OR technicians, and a bevy of others including those who merely counsel such an action would be able to be held criminally liable. Moreover, it would seem to place physicians in the unenviable position of sacrificing a grown woman's life because they would have no authority to terminate a pregnancy that would lead to her death; yet that death would ultimately lead to the death of the zygote - person anyway.

    There is no "science" behind any of these legislative efforts, only religious dogma and personal philosophy. Moreover, there can never be any science behind either side, since we are discussing a matter of definition and belief rather than fact. I will therefore try to apply a maxim, not of science but of law.

    When interpreting an ambivalent statute, one of the first maxims that attorneys and courts use is that any interpretation must not produce irrational results. We have laws forbidding homicide in every jurisdiction in the world, but most also allow exceptions such as self defense and defense of others. Any other interpretation would be irrational and, as such, not truly enforceable. Such would be the case with this type of statute or constitutional amendment. If the life of a mother were in danger, she would be allowed to terminate the pregnancy as "self defense," and the physician could be held exempt under the doctrine of "defense of others." This is far from an ideal situation, and would still lead to criminal prosecutions, but it would greatly ameliorate the effective criminality created by the law.

    More likely than this, however, is that it would be struck down by even the most conservative courts as being unconstitutional (under the US Constitution, which supersedes state law) for failing to allow the exceptions, and thus criminalizing the saving of life as well as the taking of it because, there would be NO scenario where physicians could do the "right" thing. If they save the mother's life by terminating the pregnancy, they would be criminals. On the other hand, if they simply allow the mother to die when a simple procedure could save her nearly 100% of the time, they would also be criminals. Not even the most conservative member of the US Supreme Court would allow such a law to stand.

    My final message to those who would pass such laws; DON'T! Even if we grant you the best motives, you are facing a law yourselves - the law of unintended consequences. Julius Caesar once wrote that all bad laws begin with good intentions.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Nov 13 at 09:02PM
    Eric, ..and yet..when confronted with the concern regarding the health consequences of such a law, those in favor argued that the concerns were imagined and brought out by opponents in an attempt to defeat the amendment.

    A technical question: when a state constitutional amendment is brought to vote, doesn't it have to first pass some legal screening to show that at least the intended consequences have been considered and that steps have been taken to mitigate the suspected unintended ones? Can an amendment be espousing a general principle but devoid of evidence that its consequences have been reasonably considered and rules provided for fairness? ..Maurice.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Nov 14 at 01:36PM
    Maurice,
    First, those who favored the law were unconcerned about the consequences. They had a political and religious agenda that needed to be satisfied. I suspect they thought they could deal with the consequences, intended or unintended later.

    Secondly, no; a statute or amendment doesn't needt to show that it was screened for anything. If it did, we would never have had the Volstead Act. That is left to the state legislors and the votors.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Nov 14 at 03:50PM
    Volstead, yes.. and it seemed that its passage was never considered an act that would presage crime and killing.

    Now, since the immediate connection between zygote and personhood has be "temporarily?" set aside, what about the implanted embryo as a "person" not yet born and the behavior of the mother in carrying out activities which may damage or even kill that "person" varying in state cases from allegedly not accidentally falling down steps to using cocaine while pregnant? Or in the case of others whose physical assault upon the mother may lead to the death of the fetus and a criminal trial including that of murder by the other.

    Is our society set to punish pregnant women for taking risks such as a auto passenger without using a seat belt, motorcycle riding, excessive use of alcohol, not following dietary rules or physician's advice? Obviously, these current laws and current concerns are not based on the concept of the fetus as an integral part of the mother but of the fetus as a separate "person" who while not as yet fully independent is as much of a person legally as is the mother. Is human life so complex that we have no science to understand when personhood starts or is personhood not really definable in any logical or scientific way but only in terms of politics and religion? Hmmn? ..Maurice.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Nov 15 at 04:30AM
    There are two answers to your question, and they are inherent within the question itself. As physicians and scientists, we can make certain determinations involving fetal development, as well as its implications. For instance, we can observe when the fetal nervous system is sufficiently developed for us to believe it has the potential of becoming self aware. On the other hand, "personhood" is something that is defined in terms of our beliefs and philosophies and, to a certain extent, arbitrarily.

    An example would be that we could define "personhood" or humanity as that point when a fetus can or does become self aware. Prior to that, abortion, and many of the activities you mentioned would be perfectly legal (albeit not very smart in most cases). After that point, we would need to define other concepts as to when the risk to the mother outweighs the risk to the fetus, etc., and when a killing becomes a double homicide. These are questions I've thought a good deal about, but my answers are too long to write at this point. Still, I think the most important point to come away with is that whatever we do, our answers are, and of needs must be somewhat arbitrary. Let's hope they are not also capricious.
    • And I would add, as my own personal opinion, that the Mississippi state amendment proposed by the "Yes on 26" campaign represented a "capriciously" designed product. ..Maurice.
      Maurice Bernstein MD commented Nov 15 at 08:27AM
The content on or accessible through Medpedia.com is for informational purposes only. Medpedia is not a substitute for professional advice or expert medical services from a qualified health professional. Read more
Editor Directory - browse by last initial
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
Professional Directory - browse by last initial
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
Cancel