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  • 4
    Votes
    answered Jun 26, 2009 at 02:47PM
    There is no human need for milk/dairy intake of any kind beyond breast-feeding in infancy. That you are lactose intolerant is more than a hint that you should be avoiding dairy products altogether. Personally, I consider it nonsense that "Lactaid" dairy products have been invented as the obvious purpose is to allow those who are dairy intolerant to take in the dairy products to which they are intolerant! In fact, according to the excellent and science based epidemiological "7Country Study" from many years ago, milk fat was the most effective way of creating heart disease, more effective than meat fat. In those countries of the world, where there is no osteoporosis, not only is there a more physical lifestyle, but calcium intake is half (!) of what it is in the United States. The cause of osteoporosis is primarily due to intake of animal protein with its high content of sulfur containing amino acids. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, sulfur containing amino acids are more prevalent in animal protein than in vegetable protein. The sulfur in those amino acids of the animal protein origin is metabolized in the human body toward sulfuric acid, which, of course, will not be tolerated by the human body. As a result, the body's major buffer, phosphorus, is brought out from the bone (bone is calcium phosphate) to neutralize the "sulfuric acid" from the metabolism of the sulfur containing/sulfuric acid generating animal protein amino acids. When the phosphorus has left bone to serve as the body's buffer, the bone calcium has nothing left to hang onto & then simply goes out of the body into the urine. Incidentally, there is a direct relationship between eating animal protein and an increased incidence of kidney stones (relating to the increased calcium excretion through the urine). Human calcium needs are easily met through broccoli, collard greens, and especially easily through cooked sea vegetables such as the nori of sushi and other sea vegetables such as hijiki/wakame/arame/kombu (once again, the Japanese have it right)/dulse. These are commonly prepared as small (2-3 tsp) salads or in (miso) soup. Large quantities are not needed. Collard greens, which are of Greek origin but thought to be "soul food" here in the United States, are readily available in grocery stores, are full of calcium, and contain more calcium than all else except sea vegetables. More recently, calcium supplemented rice milk and orange juice obviate the need for any dairy intake. I have no conflicts of/vested interests. Respectfully, H Robert Silverstein, MD, FACC: website: www.thepmc.org
    • There are other factors that contribute to the high rate of osteoporosis in women such as a significant emphasis on sodas and juices as the beverage of choice during peak bone development (up through early 20s), and while vegetables can contribute calcium, most do not co-exist with vitamin D, which is essential for adequate absorption and utilization of calcium. That said, rice milk and soy milk as well as yogurt and other low fat dairy products are reasonable sources of calcium and vitamin D. Finally, it is unlikely to expect that most girls will consume greens, sea vegetables and collards in
      Jodi R Godfrey MS, RD commented Nov 04, 2009 at 03:37PM
    • Great info, Dr. Silverstein, but maybe you want to include information on magnesium, too. Supplementing calcium without sufficient magnesium is not a great idea.
      Gina Pera commented Feb 06, 2010 at 09:10PM
    • P.S. There are risks with consuming too much rice milk and soy milk, too. Rice milk is, as far as I can see, metabolized like a sugar; a setup for insulin resistance. And soy consumption should be sparingly, given impact on thyroid.
      Gina Pera commented Feb 06, 2010 at 09:28PM
  • 3
    Votes
    answered Jul 01, 2009 at 02:11PM
    The answer is, there are studies that demonstrate that you can meet your calcium needs with milk and dairy products, even if you are diagnosed with lactose maldigestion (which can lead to intolerance if the load of lactose you consume overwhelms your ability to digest it). If you are a lactose maldigestor, try drinking milk with a meal. try smaller amounts and work slowy back up to larger amounts, your intestinal bacterial will adapt and help you digest the lactose. Try aged cheeses, they are very low in lactose. try yogurt, the cultures help you digest the lactose. Use lactose free or reduced milks. you can take an enzyme (lactase) capsule before consuming dairy. It is difficult to meet your calcium needs woithout dairy foods in your diet. Dairy foods are also a good source of 8 other nutrients, like potassium, vitamin D, phosphrous,protien and more. Dr. Bob Heaney an internation expert has written on protein and bone health. He indiocates if calcium intake is adequate, higher protein intake will not impact bone. you need protien for good bone health too, luckily dairy foods are a good source of both.

    I work for the dairy industry, so do not just take my word for it, check health professional organizations point of view, like the American Dietetics Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, or the National Medical Association. they have written on this issue.

    Good luck and I hope these refereences are helpful to you.

    Here are some references:

    Suarez FL, Adshead J, Furne JK and Levitt MD. Lactose maldigestion is not an impediment to the intake of 1500 mg calcium daily as dairy products. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition . 1998;68:1118-22

    Inman-Felton AE. Overview of lactose maldigestion (lactase nonpersistence). Journal of the American Dietetic Association . 1999; 98:481-9

    McBean LD, Miller GD. Allaying fears and fallacies about lactose intolerance. Journal of the American Dietetic Association . 1998; 98:671-676

    McBean LD, Miller GD. Allaying fears and fallacies about lactose intolerance. Journal of American Dietetic Association . 1998; 98:671-676

    Suarez FL, Adshead J, Furne JK and Levitt MD. Lactose maldigestion is not an impediment to the intake of 1500 mg calcium daily as dairy products. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition . 1998;68:1118-22

    Pribila BA, Hertzler SR, Martin BR, Weaver CM, Savaiano DA. Improved lactose digestion and intolerance among African-American adolescent girls fed a dairy-rich diet. Journal of the American Dietetic Association. 2000;100:524-528

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/3/1279

    http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/NationalDairyCouncil/Nutrition/Lactose/lactoseIntolerancePage1.htm

    http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/NationalDairyCouncil/Health/Handbook/

    I suggest you read chapter 8 in the Handbook of Dairy Foods and Nutrition.

    also check out this issue on web sites like WebMD.com, eatrright.org
  • 2
    Votes
    answered Nov 04, 2009 at 04:49AM
    The answer is Yes.

    I disagree that dairy products are not essential in our diet. They are necessary for adequate bone health. Lactaid, especially low-fat, is an excellent source of calcium -- and I find it tastes better than milk. It is really important to build and/or maintain bone mass to help avoid osteopenia and osteoporosis. Or you could take regular, low-fat milk with a Lactaid pill.

    I take a calcium supplement in the morning and a glass of non-fat Lactaid at night, plus yogurt during the day. Yogurt is a great source of calcium, and it contains bacteria to help your digestive system.

    I have osteopenia due to multiple rounds of chemotherapy and other drugs that leached bone. I'm fortunate to be cancer-free, but I do have to take Fosamax every week. In addition, my doctors are adament (and so am I) about incorporating dairy in my diet.

    I am vigilent in ensuring I am getting enough dairy, and so should anyone who cares about bone health.
    • Calcium and risk for fractures in the general population has been difficult to interpret. There have been conflicting studies on this point. Most recently, it appears at least part of the problems in these analyses has related to lack of adequate vitamin D data. It's starting to look like to some degree that calcium is important with adequate vit D supplementation, which makes sense. It is very difficult to absorb calcium from the gut with out vitamin D. Studies that have looked at fracture risk reduction and calcium supplementation have shown it is a necessary component as long as vitamin
      Jonathan Williams MD, MMSc commented Feb 07, 2010 at 05:43PM
    • Thank you for the information. My doctors have agreed that Vitamin D supplementation is essential for absorption of calcium.
      Beth L. Gainer commented Feb 07, 2010 at 05:54PM
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Feb 06, 2010 at 09:23PM
    I've seen no proof, Beth, that supplementing with dairy-sourced calcium does anything for osteopenia. The Harvard School of Public Health does not share your confidence, and it also points to a couple of cancer risks (from lactose) as well as other risks.

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-full-story/

    Fosamax is another controversy entirely. Maybe it's a different set of guidelines for chemotherapy patients, but many women are taking Fosamax for what seems like dubious reasons.

    Gina Pera, author
    Is It You, Me, or Adult A.D.D.?
    • Calcium data is probably confounded in part by poor Vitamin D data. Now that folks are starting to appreciate the importance of vitamin D in relation to calcium absorption from the gut, the calcium story is becoming clearer with relation to fracture risk reduction. You can see no fracture reduction with calcium supp. unless Vit D is present. You get no reduction in fracture reduction with vit D supplementation with out calcium supps.
      Jonathan Williams MD, MMSc commented Feb 07, 2010 at 05:48PM
    • Yes, that's an important point, Dr. Williams, which is why I was reluctant to accept a 1997 review on the topic. That's when Vitamin D was on few physicians' radar -- and dermatologists were doing their darndest to make us all Vitamin D deficient.

      Now that women are learning about the importance of Vitamin D, my concern is that these 1,000+ recommendations will drive their Calcium levels into dangerous territories.
      Gina Pera commented Feb 07, 2010 at 06:12PM
    • THere are some very good physiology studies relating Vit D intake/calcium intake and serum and urine levels of calcium in normal populations (ie. normal kidney function and parathyroid hormone function). Vit D is actually not very potent unless it is converted to 1,25 vitamin D by the kidney. You would have to take over 5000IU Vit D daily for several months before you would start to see calcium spilling into the urine to any significant degree. You would not see the actual serum levels elevate. It is likely that recommended vit D intake will be pushed to 1000 and calcium will stay at 1000-
      Jonathan Williams MD, MMSc commented Feb 07, 2010 at 06:28PM
    • Hmmmm, very interesting. Tx
      Gina Pera commented Feb 07, 2010 at 09:02PM
  • 2
    Votes
    answered Feb 07, 2010 at 06:22PM
    Gina, thank you for the useful link. I think the article contains really helpful information. I agree with the article that calcium alone won't prevent osteoporosis. It's important to do weight-bearing exercise, eat right, take supplements, etc. There's no one cure-all to prevent bone problems.

    I've gotten my information from my doctors, whom I trust. I do think they are a very credible resource. In terms of Fosamax, perhaps some women are not taking it for the right reasons. I do have osteopenia, partly resulting from chemotherapy, partly from genetics, and partly from sheer bad luck (I eat right and exercise, so go figure). All my doctors want me on Fosamax, and so I defer to their judgement, as I trust them completely. It may not be advisable for other patients to be on Fosamax; all I can do is speak from my experience and my doctors' expertise.
  • 1
    Votes
    answered Feb 07, 2010 at 06:28PM
    I'm glad to hear you have physicians you can trust, Beth. Not everyone is so lucky. ;-)

    The stories I hear about Fosamax come from women who pay close attention to getting exercise, eating right, etc. They are middle-aged, with dropping estrogen levels.

    Their doctors first have them take large calcium supplements, with NEVER a mention of magnesium. Yet, we know that cells cannot properly uptake the calcium without mag. Instead, that calcium sort of lurks around causing trouble.

    The next step for them: Fosamax.

    They are often reluctant to trust my information over their physicians. That's their choice. And I know that medical information is so complex these days, it overwhelms most of us. Still, I use "simple" issues like this as my litmus test for deciding if a physician is up to snuff. That is, if a physician jumps on the "osteopenia" bandwagon (which is really a new phenomenon and the result of a very powerful marketing campaign), recommends that a female patient take large doses of calcium and knows nothing about magnesium, I would run -- not walk - from such a doctor. :-)

    Gina Pera, author
    is It You, Me, or Adult A.D.D.?
  • 3
    Votes
    answered Feb 07, 2010 at 06:49PM
    Beth, I would follow a doctor who follows guidelines based on evidence-based medicine. Such guidelines are developed by expert researchers and clinicians who scrutinize data that is available through the peer-review process. This is our best tool available for diminishing the effects of anecdote, hearsay, testimonial and unproven claims. It took 50 years to refine evidence based medicine so that we can more clearly develop guidelines. Of course, it's not perfect, but it is the best model we have right now.
    • Just to clarify....are you saying that we have evidence-based guidelines on osteopenia and Fosamax?
      Gina Pera commented Feb 07, 2010 at 09:03PM
  • 3
    Votes
    answered Feb 07, 2010 at 09:57PM
    Certainly a more difficult question to answer given what osteopenia represents. Since it is really a "pre-condition" it is very hard to pin a hard outcome like fracture risk. Osteoporosis is a T score less than -2.5. Osteopenia is really just a very arbitrary mostly research-defined value of T score between -1 and -2.5. Obviously, bone mineral density deficiencies only represent about 25% of the risk that predicts fractures at the hip and spine. That is very important to realize. There is nothing magical about a cut-off of -2.5. It is a continuum of risk with decreasingly important predicting power as you approach a T score of "0". If it takes literally years and thousands of people to find a fracture risk reduction benefit with fosamax and T score worse than -2.5 then it will take many more people to show the benefit in a T score that is -1 to -2.4, but...you can do it. The Fracture Intervention Trial. Mayo Clin Proc 2005 Mar; 80:343-9 showed a risk reduction with alendronate in osteopenia. However, some might argue is it worth it? You would spend a ton of money to prevent one fracture over a five year period (and it wouldn't even be the life-threatening hip fractures, rather a vertebral fracture).
    However, I think there is a fair amount of evidence to support alendronate or other bisphosphonate therapy in osteopenia in the setting of high dose steroids, HIV-osteodystrophy and prostate cancer treatment protocols.
    In summary, broad-stroke generalizations about treatment of osteopenia and fosamax run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Each physician should take the responsibility to understand guidelines in the setting of the patient sitting across from them.
  • 0
    Votes
    answered Feb 08, 2010 at 08:50AM
    I appreciate your answer, Dr. Williams.

    The trouble is, "each physician" doesn't take the responsibility to understand the guidelines. Or else the physician is simply not capable of understanding the guidelines. Unfortunately.

    Gina Pera, journalist-author
  • 2
    Votes
    answered Feb 08, 2010 at 09:23AM
    Thank you, Dr. Williams. Actually, when my doctor brought up that I was losing bone density -- from "normal" the year before to osteopenia the very next year -- her goal was to keep me from heading in a downward spiral. During that year, I was already very fit, exercising, doing the weight-bearing exercises, etc., eating right, etc. My dad also has osteoporosis, which puts me at some genetic risk, plus I had chemo, followed for almost two years with aromasin treatments, both of which, from what I understand, can leach bone.

    My doctor and I never discussed bone fractures, but we did want to prevent my going into the osteoporosis arena. I was heartbroken when I found out I was losing bone density despite all my efforts.

    And she did discuss my eventually going off Fosamax. Every patient's situation is different, and for me, knowing that I gained bone density was worth gold.

    Thank you, Dr. Williams, for a very informative discussion and for clarifying things for me. I really appreciate it.
    • You bring up a very important point, that is the rate of progression in bone density loss. I would completely agree with your physician's approach. You have a few extra risks and I would favor optimizing your risk reduction, of course weighing in potential risks from Fosamax which I would consider to be comparitively small. Your case enters the arena of the 'art of medicine', since you would be hard pressed to find a population who has been studied with that exact set of circumstances.
      Jonathan Williams MD, MMSc commented Feb 08, 2010 at 03:55PM
  • 1
    Votes
    answered Feb 08, 2010 at 09:24AM
    Ooops. To clarify: since I've been on Fosamax, a dexa scan showed I gained bone density in one year. It was a significant gain.
    • Congratulations, Beth. That's great news.
      You're lucky not to have experienced the side effects so many other women have.
      Gina Pera commented Feb 08, 2010 at 09:46AM
    • Thanks much, Gina!!
      Beth L. Gainer commented Feb 08, 2010 at 09:56AM
  • 2
    Votes
    answered Feb 08, 2010 at 07:59PM
    responding to the above: re JRG: "Finally, it is unlikely to expect that most girls will consume greens, sea vegetables and collards." In the movie "Cool Hand Luke," Paul Newman has a line that goes something to the effect of "what we have here is a communication problem." Certainly sodas and other acid generating foods (such as animal protein as stated above) contribute to osteoporosis. This raises the question of what are we supposed to eat/what does the human biology call for: with our flat teeth for grinding rather than sharp scissors like teeth a& jqaw for tearing flesh, only four of 32 teeth for tearing meat, our lack of fangs and claws, our long small bowel like (other) predominantly herbivores/vegetarians, etc. it is pretty clear that if you speak to a comparative anatomist,the human body should be about 90% vegetarian. I did not discuss what teenagers like, I am talking about reawakening our culture to real preventive medicine that prevents and/or abolishes diseases because we do not ange our body which then pays us back with avoidable conditions like osteoporosis, osteopenia, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart attack, stroke, dialysis, most cancers, diverticulitis, appendicitis... all diseases that come from what we did that we should not have and all virtually entirely avoidable. If we can get leadership from the likes of people who have commented on this column, we could begin to get those teenagers to eat more brown rice/vegetables/beans/fruit/nuts and less of those foods that generate the ( avoidable) common scourges of our culture as above + more. Public health begins with leadership & education. Re GP: this is the natural approach to a high magnesium diet as sodas & animal proteins are low in magnesium. Re GP again: soymilk is a recent invention, and I don't recommend it. Rice milk is 1,000's of years old and is called "amasake" which is a not too sweet form of this product. For reasons I won't go into just now, I don't recommend wheat ( or rye) or dairy or much soy unless it is (limited) tamari, miso, tempeh, or occasional tofu. Dr GDM has vested interests which I feel are conflicts of interests, but the readers of this column are free to believe him or not. He seems a nice person. My position would be, read what I said in the first place. BLG speaks from her heart, but is wrong & the scientific data do not support her positions at all. However, she makes a powerful point that all patients are handmade-1 of a kind and need to be treated respectfully. Her situation is clearly different from the "walking well." JW, MD, has an interesting discussion regarding the arbitrary decisions that are made by physicians/panels/working groups/organizations and then called evidence-based medicine. It was only a few years ago that the decision to treat HIV was deferred until very serious numbers were present. That thinking has changed and HIV-positive patients are being treated earlier and earlier. Such will likely become the case with osteopenia as better medications/natural treatments (vitamin K2, strontium, high doses of Vit D3 to achieve blood levels of 25 hydroxy D3 of 50 +: lifeguards have levels of 100, and are not adversely affected). There is no vitamin D in foods unless supplemented: the calcium in supplemented orange juice or rice milk and vegetables is more readily absorbible than milk calcium because milk has higher phosphorus content which reduces calcium absorption. I hope this clears up some of the above. While this is an "opinion piece" everything I have said is simply an "invitation for your consideration." I have stuck to the science, whether it seems brutal or not, these are the facts. I invite you to our website, for more on disease prevention as a whole: www.thepmc.org. I have no vested/conflicts of interest. H. Robert Silverstein MD, FACC. Medical Director, the Preventive Medicine Center.
    • You rock, Dr. Silverstein. ;-)
      Gina Pera commented Feb 08, 2010 at 10:43PM
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